was that they were a consular officials or consular staff and consular immunity is different from diplomatic immunity it would not insulate them from a murder claim well a lot of a lot of detail in this case that we have to get through i urge our viewers to reach article for more now that scott horton contributing editor with harper's magazine unfortunately does it for now for more on the stories that we covered please go to our t. dot com slash usa and check out our you tube page it's youtube dot com slash r t america and of course feel free to follow me on twitter it's lucy catherine out and we'll see you right back here in an hour and a half. more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world is

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. taking. the low in welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle the drift to the right all across europe and the u.s. more and more people are giving the political rights a new look and more times than not it is the issue of immigration they galvanizes voters is the politics of intolerance coming into vogue. and. to discuss the growing appeal of the right wing i'm joined by tommy robinson in

london he is the leader of the english defense league and in strasbourg we cross edward mortimer he is the senior vice president and chief program officer at the salzburg global seminar and another member of our crosstalk team arrived. gentlemen this is cross talk you both have difference of points of view i to go to edward first instead oscar we had a poll that came out a few days ago that madame le pen is ahead in the polls for the presidential poll in france next year she's beating the president others will even say if they vote were held now they would vote for her also if i go to mail online a british publication here in the headline is half of britons would vote for far right parties if they gave up violence and if i could continue a total of forty eight percent said they would definitely support or consider supporting a party with such an agenda is it shown violence in fascist imagery what is going on all across europe why they have such a great appeal to the right and so dramatic. well i

think that there's no doubt that europe is feeling a lack of a sense of direction at the moment we haven't got very strong national leaders and we certainly haven't got very strong leaders at the european level we are suffering of course the aftereffects of the major economic crisis as you know the euro has been under a lot of pressure particularly some countries close to defaults and having to make very heavy cuts in government spending so i think that people are fed up and they're looking around for other people to blame and they're probably looking for something new and different which sounds more decisive. and of course you know one shouldn't prejudge too quickly what the results will be in real elections where governments are being chosen i think from that point of view the most significant so far is in the netherlands last year which has resulted in

a government that is relying for support on one of these far right parties but has not yet brought it in in most other countries they are still more or less at the margins of politics ok tell me if i'm going to you is your organisation is it more or do you see that you'd be attraction to your. group is it more of a protest or is it much more easily that because we just even edwards a lot of people are having a lot of do have a lot of issues with the status quo that the european leaderships have not performed in the way people would have liked in we're a street protest movement i believe a lot of people would wish for us to be a political organization but we're not we're a single issue organization who want to raise awareness and put pressure on the politicians are already there to deal with these problems and realise what we're living with and realise the effect is a lawman islamism is having on this country and on our everyday lives how we got three percent of the country into a seven percent on many issues and cautions so much alarm and distress and such

a disturbance to the country when there's only three percent. and we think of our children's futures we're thinking of our country's future we think of our culture and we stand up for our way of life and i think that's what you see in across europe you see in across the world islam is causing war and waging war everywhere from one end of the plant the other people are realizing that people are realizing now this facade that islam is a religion of pace is absolute rubbish it's not a religion of peace it never has been and never will be and people are making a stand now and speaking out there is in this country we're down to racist by the previous government for fifteen years we've been walking on eggshells scared to say anything for fear of being branded a racist we've even seen a systematic rape of our youth one muslim gangs and the place knew it was going on for twenty years and didn't do anything and the reason why was for fear of being called a racist they allowed right for fear of being called a racist class how big a problem not everyone was so scared and with breaking out to be with you there's

a lot more to believe the need to break we need to break a place and system or two to funding system. overwhelmingly favors these and communicate and we're only so if edward islam in muslims being scapegoated here because i'm a lazy you mention a lazy you mentioned at the beginning of the program go ahead it's only what it sounds like to me. i have to admit that i am although i british i'm living outside britain at the moment but i think i can reasonably close touch with the country i'm visiting it very frequently the idea that ninety seven percent of the population are being dominated by three percent so it's not recognizable to me at all i really don't know what he's talking about commie want to respond to that was can i read your head where are you from and where are you from in england that would. cause us to let you grow up in the southwest which will soon realize that it's all. which

town is that it x r c you know nothink about exit growing up they were going in it with their you know nothing about growing up in a town that is plagued with a million is known and you are talking about things that you read and things you study you have no first hand experience without being rude. in the hope that and the heart of million is land in this country so i can speak more favorably in first hand on the fate that is long and what is have in on us in our communities and our towns on our youth and our future so i'm talking about experience not of raids on what you sow so you can see in a foreign country which you are trying to tell us how it is in england on telling you how it is in the town i grew up in the town where i live in the tower love is our town and it is plagued with zeal get anywhere where it's quite fashionable today does say that multiculturalism is failed in europe we've heard the german chancellor said and i just said it's fashionable we've heard our cameron the

british prime minister say the same thing i mean is it is it it's fashionable because it's not getting the results that people want or it's people at the politicians are afraid of the voters and we also we have a case of that because the that is looking for reelection able merkel's under a lot of pressure in local in regional elections i mean what is the connection between the two use it does is more of a political move to say it's failed. well i think it is a good deal of that i think america all said that because of the popularity of this book by. you know which shows that germany is abolishing itself and will become a completely muslim country by the end of the century which has been surprisingly popular so i think that has had an effect on mainstream politicians but i did i think they often don't define very clearly what they mean by nazi culturalism when they say that it's failed i mean something has failed because obviously there are parts of our cities and may well be one of them where you have something like

muslim. or parallel societies and if that is the result of multiculturalism then obviously it's failed but i think there may be other ways that we could interpret multiculturalism and i would hope that it would mean bringing people of different culture and religion together and helping them to understand each other and to do things together and build a better country and i know many muslims in britain who are trying to do that and who are not at all like the ones that tom is is talking about so i think he should not be a bit careful about generalizing and blackening a whole religion and all people who follow is on the basis of some specific incidents clearly when you say about there's a lot of people would say about individuals like yourself and your group is that you just like to make a big huge blanket around a group of people that are extremely nuanced there maybe from different generations coming from different places and the only thing that they have in common she is

their feet go ahead already had you talk about you talk about her in a blanket over something couple leave what these politicians are doing when they say no reasons failed because it hasn't. is rumsfeld really is found in europe is failing everywhere now we cultures and hasn and water in a blanket pulled in the problem and so that it doesn't actually directly say who the problem nor the problem is islamic the. religion the problem is the islamic faith is not what we culture them because as an insult to sikhism hinduism judaism is are is an insult to the west indian community in this country it's an insult to the i was community all the different communities that comes this country embraced it and integrated fully there is only and only the islamic community who are found to do that and that's not our fault we can't blame ourselves for can't be ourselves the problem lies there in their community not in ours they need to reform their religion in a way that they wish to live side by side they need to accept british law as the supremes lord this country they need to denounce shariah law start calling for it

stop calling for the spread of it stop asking for the implementation of it stop open show our courts which are against the human rights of women stop spread in islam is an across our country and in so very form their religion which is and is for them to do we will continue in these issues and we're not racist for doing that we just point out the problems which are there and they're there for everyone in the world to see and they're spreading these problems not get in and so it we're not talking about or not tackling it means a whole lot and we all know how to solve ok if it is very interesting to me is very very good edward i mean well as we speak right now we have muslim people in the arab world fighting for their rights fighting for freedom striving for some people would say democracy will see where it goes i mean it's kind of hard to kind of bring the two together if you save one group of people one faith in one part of the world is one thing but when you have hundreds of millions of other people in another part of the world the muslim world that are fighting for their freedoms right now and a lot of people say that people in europe are walking away from those same freedoms

by wanting to deny people that live there even citizens their rights. well i mean i think frankly it's ridiculous to. everybody you know there are probably a hundred i think a hundred million. maybe something like a billion muslims in the world you know to say that they're all the same and they're all militant jihadists or whatever and i mean this is ridiculous as it would be to say the same thing about all the christians i mean i think that. there are a number of unpleasant groups in the world some of them may be muslim and some of them have other ideologies but i think there's most muslims and certainly the ones i know law abiding people who indeed want to exist with their fellow citizens and. i think that it doesn't serve any purpose to build up this sort of hysteria about ok gentlemen i'm going to jump in here after

a short break we'll continue our discussion on the political right stay with our. case. yes my name is daniel schmidt this is julia found we're here to make a short presentation of all that we can fix project. the first step in the fourth effect is through get information out about the real world. through him. on and on and on the. secrecy because. going to be a good marker for you. if i ever put in the sauce this is in danger

he would hunt me down and kill me. this is exactly one of the reasons why we left the project because it has become a war of all this all the james bond. than all the actual information. but thank you. so all the people around the wold. be. bringing you the latest science stimson knowledge from around the world. we've got the future of coverage. came.

to mind you were speaking about the rise of the right wing in europe. but first let's see what russians think about this issue recent poll suggests the leader of france far right party marine led pen is heading next year's presidential race in a country that's all from parties non-profits anticipated sentiments but one taking over the part of marine le pen involved to focus on the role of islam in france home to six million muslims that's sparking probe the debate on immigration issues the russian public opinion research center asked muscovites what the photos should do to prevent tensions and conflicts between ethnic groups six to seven percent say registration for rules for all of white lead before should be strengthened thirty

two percent claimed they should sever punishment and for hate speech twenty two percent believe authorities should award concentration of my gran's in particular areas eighteen percent see any extremist political and religious groups as a solution so pound for different issues but will the return on the political right help resolve the immigration question. ok tell me if i can go to you in london a lot of people say in their be your critics that. the use of islam the use of. talking about islam and muslims is today in britain you're a very came to what was said about the jews in the one nine hundred thirty scapegoating a group of people how do you respond to that. it's absolute nonsense i wasn't around annoying things we're not scapegoating anyone all we're doing is hoyt and point out the problem and the problem is there for everyone to see the problem is an epidemic sweeping across this country and everyone knows it that's why people

want to bury their head in the sand and pretend the fate that the public feeling is not there everyone the english defense league has been one of the biggest phenomenons to sweep this country ever there's a reason for that because people in these towns and cities like blue and not like x. are probably aware where it was from because they probably have a clue about islam in towns and cities and towns that is not lutheran where there are problems in birmingham in bradford in leeds and in halifax everyone's been feeling the same we've had no voice we've had no one protecting us and i want to stand up stand up for us now in opposing this fascist or ideology that's masquerading as a religion let's walk across our country and challenged and promote ensure our law promote in high trees promoting extremism promoting homophobia promoting only some some matters some all these different things are symptoms are coming from this religion and they need tackling and it's not racist to try and talk about and i want to ask you so peter when when when when organizations called far right what freud. i will give my station that's how i tell the media how media and the analyst

look at europe is asian and others are the national front really answer the media there and i don't mean about national front but all right i'm allowing you to express your opinion that's ok that's why we invited you on the program ok and we're not if i could go to you a lot of scholars and their female scholars of islam they happen to be muslims themselves in the us in the u.k. and in continental europe have told me personally that for too long liberals in the west did bury their heads saying well we don't we want to be tolerant we want to be tolerant so you just turn another way turn your turn your head away from it it's their business and a lot of people in it and there's a lot there's a large muslim community here in moscow and there and some people are saying well look you know we live here we have certain values it's the way we live our life and we expect you is guests and becoming citizens of this country the least we got some of the basics and i think that's a fair thing to ask isn't it. absolutely i think that we should stand up for the

rights of all individuals and of course that includes individual when we are concerned to recognize the rights of groups should never lead us to neglect the rights of individuals when large numbers of individuals form a group they want to practice their religion build a mosque whatever it is i mean those are also rights that people have and which we should respect so i think that we shouldn't confuse the two things economy what do you think about that i mean just great to hear you about recycling lighter so i find it hard to respect when we've seen for documentaries recently in britain we've seen the islamic mcgrath's a school we've seen what they're teaching in these islamic schools. the homophobic i find hard to suspect that in any way we've seen the green line mosque under cover mosque documentary which showed him from a in hatred extremism in one of the beacon

of moderation mosques in this country we've seen the east london mosque with islamic form of europe every time a mosque is exposed to undercover documentary we see hatred and we see extremism so all persons find it very hard to respect any building of any more mosque and was in for no it isn't because there are laws being promoted in them and there's no governing body there's no moderation of any of these mosques at all at the moment and it's out of control this is not applications going in left right center and until we solve the problem until we deal. with the. elements of its religion then i need to stop building these mosques you know it's very interesting and we'll do it i've done a number of programs i'm an immigration on in islam in europe in this and i'd like to address this to edward here is that it's not really the building of mosques per se meet in leader tommy and his friends we disagree but it's because europe itself is becoming less and less christian in and in our identities are not determined usually through our religious faith it's one of our identities but because of how

our muslim people feel they are treated perception they're treated equally the retreat into their religion that's at least some interpretations out there i mean isn't that really different if secularization that we've experienced in europe. it may be partly that but i think all these things are generalisations the fact that there are many people in europe who are from muslim background but may not wish to be identified as muslims and there are others who say this is an important part of my identity and i think there are many who while they may not be particularly keen to draw attention to themselves when they hear somebody talking. about their religion and making out as if you know a few things that go on in a few mosques which have been given a great prominence in the media and it's ok i like a mosque you know this is one he's claiming that he is claiming that you are being

silenced this is an unheard voice and then you cite a series of documentaries that have been given prominent you have been been shown on the b.b.c. or wherever i think certainly some muslims do feel offended by that and they feel that they are being targeted and. that probably reinforces their islamic identity and may they may even think it's a mistake they should be prepared to denounce anybody who's advocating violence or intolerance but they may be more reluctant to do so if it means that they're going to be associated with people who talk the way top leaders we think about that i mean really if people are attacked or scaffolding they could be would naturally turn inward on their own the identity that you're forcing it out think already hand remember remember the english defense league only been here for not even two years what happened before that no one forced anything no one now i'm saying anything against islamic people to pay for it and the problem was there you talk about

muslims feel offended we're offended on a daily but i think that's rather hard to say i mean after all after. after the july bombings there was a great deal of anti muslim speech in the seventy's i don't i hope we have got past that. well ok wait why hasn't britain got past it then. well i think it's essentially the story. it's i think it's it's a complicated set of questions but we're certainly not helped by media who go out looking for minorities to blame and encourage this kind of feeling i think that most people who actually live in areas where there are muslims and who see them every day know that it's only a small minority of them that would advocate terrorism or. extreme versions of traditions which would be of the oppression of women and although it's

i think it's it the trouble is that most people are learning about it from the media and from people like tommy and they get very worried about what's happening to the country and i think it's enormously exaggerated and it's not a healthy way to deal with it we think about that i mean you're part of the problem not part of the solution. here are here that we are a symptom we are a symptom of the problem if you get down to the root cause of the problem and deal with it there would be no english defense league is small talk about small numbers and a handful of people ten thousand people who attended his part to his last annual rally in this country in london ten thousand people. are missing most religions are there is you yet you said i was a population of mostly. thirty seven thousand is really quite. purple ten thousand really ok with the british national party how does an annual rally and make it and make a thousand people they got two million votes so his party here could have ten

thousand people attended rallies is thirty seven percent of british muslims when identified in a poll said they wish to show rather low in this country that's not small percent if free million people who do the will of the syrian lords means. do you know what . all you i mean i haven't studied but. there's one hundred one hundred who are local courts in this country there in the european court of human rights in three thousand and seven was it issued shariah law is incompatible with western democracy and freedom juge their views on homosexuals they use on women and their views on infidels so this is a system that cannot appease actually realign the rozzers time is the correct characterization go ahead and work. no because he's doing he's jumping from he talks about sharia law which is an abstraction and then he talks about values who are we talking about you or your he's almost every mostly but will tell you he wants to follow the sharia which is the path of following the divine law i mean

christians would say the same but it doesn't necessarily mean that you want to cut people's hands off or anything like that. in their marriage at all and family law you know where if you two people get married it's they make a contract and you know they need to know what the terms of the contract are and so they will say you know we're having this marriage law it really. makes it sound. like the second school actually had twenty seconds where you defend it and it was defending sharia law but we've been in a nation where little courts are treated unfairly women a fool for decades in this country for equal rights we're not allowing british muslim women and women of our country not our allowing them so to be passed brushed aside and treated unfairly sorry i have to jump in here gentlemen we've run out of time many thanks my guess would be in london and strasburg and make sure if you

were watching if you are to see you next time remember cross talk. to kids.

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